Evelyn Smalling

Interviewee: Evelyn Smalling
Interviewer: Maria Schleidt
Interview Date: 2008
Transcribed by: Mim Eisenberg/WordCraft; July 2013
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Interview with:          Evelyn Smalling
Interviewed by:         Maria Schleidt
Date:                          2008
Transcribed by:         Mim Eisenberg/WordCraft; July 2013
MARIA SCHLEIDT: Good afternoon.

EVELYN SMALLING: They had never actually been invited, you know, because they used to just send out cards, and I don’t know whether they sent cards to those people or not, but they should have.


This is Tuesday afternoon, one o’clock at the Poteau Ranger District on the Ouachita National Forest. I am interviewing Mrs. Evelyn Smalling, who currently lives in Waldron, Arkansas.

Okay. Forget it’s even there. So let’s start. When were you born?


SCHLEIDT: Yes. What year?

SMALLING: Nineteen thirty.

SCHLEIDT: Nineteen thirty.

SMALLING: Four. Nineteen thirty-four. And Forester started in ’30, and we moved into Forester I think in ’40.

SCHLEIDT: So where were you born? What town?

SMALLING: What they called the Spur.


SMALLING: [Laughs.] The spurs were short sections of railroad, and they would run this section of railroad from the Forester mill out into the logging woods, and my granddad had those wagons, log wagons and teams, and he owned his own little houses. Just shacks. And we lived in those.


SMALLING: They would set our houses along this railroad spur, and we lived there until they logged that section out. They would put those logs on the train and take them to Forester. So then they picked that track up and lay it to another tract of timber and move our little houses out there. We’d do another [cross-talk; unintelligible; 1:46].

SCHLEIDT: So where was your spur?

SMALLING: My spur was called the Elrod Place.

SCHLEIDT: Elrod Place.

SMALLING: It’s still loaned to the Forest Service, I think.


SMALLING: I’ve been back to it one time in the last few years, and you can still drive down to it, and you can tell, you know, that something has been there sometime, but not much.


SMALLING: And I was born in Elrod Spur. All spurs had names. They had the Schoolhouse Place. They had the Rapjohn Springs. [Bucknalls 2:27] had a spur. Mill Creek had a spur. Irons Creek had a spur. Maybe more, but that’s the ones I remember.

SCHLEIDT: So you were born in 1934 at the spur or on the spur, and your family moved to Forester in 1940.


SCHLEIDT: So what was your dad doing for Forester?

SMALLING: They were logging. His father and his—maybe his brother, and some cousins, but we all moved in because they took the log wagons out and bought trucks.

SCHLEIDT: Who’s “they”?

SMALLING: The company.

SCHLEIDT: The company?

SMALLING: Caddo River Lumber Company. Yeah, they went to trucks, so they didn’t need the spurs for the wagons, so that’s why we moved into Forester. We moved in and got modern. [Laughs.]

SCHLEIDT: You got modern?

SMALLING: Modern. First I think we had a spring out back, but then we could walk up into Cannon Town, which is on the Polecat Road. You know that part.


SMALLING: We could walk up there and get water from a pump. We didn’t have lights until we moved into Forester. I don’t remember what year we moved into the town, but then we had electric lights and a hydrant in the back yard! Wow!

SCHLEIDT: But you didn’t have running water, still.

SMALLING: Just in the yard.

SCHLEIDT: Just in the yard.

SMALLING: Mm-hm, not in the houses. Some of the houses uptown [laughs] had running water. A few even had a bathroom.

SCHLEIDT: So you had latrines.

SMALLING: Most of them didn’t when we moved in there.

SCHLEIDT: So when you say you moved into Forester, where exactly in Forester did you first move into?

SMALLING: We moved into the part called Angel Town, and that’s the part I’m working on now to try to keep it from being lost, because it doesn’t have a [spine? 4:28] up there, and it didn’t have streets like, say, uptown.

SCHLEIDT: Would it have been [Woods Roads? 4:40]?

SMALLING: When you get to Forester in the middle, where the signing is, one sign says Cannon Town—goes toward the Polecat Road. One says Water Tank Road. It goes to the right of the Forest Service road up the mountain. Angel Town goes right straight on—go down the hill, across a little cement bridge, and you’re in Angel Town. A lot of people don’t recognize it. They don’t know it was there.

SCHLEIDT: So you moved to Angel Town in 1940. When did you move to Cannon Town.

SMALLING: We just moved below Cannon Town. We didn’t move in Cannon Town.

SCHLEIDT: Oh, okay.

SMALLING: That’s where we moved in 1940, so we moved over into Angel Town probably—I don’t know. I don’t remember the year. But that’s where we lived for most of my life, was in Angel Town.

SCHLEIDT: So what exactly was your dad’s job? A logger? A foreman?

SMALLING: He was definitely a logger all of his life. His dad owned the teams and the log wagons, and he would help load the logs on the wagon. Then he rode on a mule, and that’s the way they got their teams to go and pull those wagons. He would ride on a mule.

SCHLEIDT: What was your father’s name, by the way?

SMALLING: When they moved into Forester, of course, and got trucks, then he drove a truck mostly. [Goes through documents.] I don’t believe you saw these or not.

SCHLEIDT: Okay. Ah, yes, I think I did see these.

SMALLING: Now, this is my granddad. He bought this little Caterpillar before they got rid of—went into the trucks. But, see, this is the way they used to work. And this is my dad here.

SCHLEIDT: In the middle of the photograph?

SMALLING: And they would—some of them would ride up on the mules, you know, and the mules would pull these wagon logs, [unintelligible; 6:39] put them on the train.

SCHLEIDT: These are hand-tinted photographs. Wow. Nice.

Did you have any brothers or cousins or aunts and uncles who worked for Forester?

SMALLING: Well, now, he had a brother that worked there, but he wasn’t much of a logger. But he had cousins and other close friends, and they all worked together.

SCHLEIDT: What was his name, your father?

SMALLING: My father’s name? He was called Buster.


SMALLING: Standerfer.

SCHLEIDT: What was that?

SMALLING: Standerfer.

SCHLEIDT: How do you spell that?

SMALLING: S-t-a-n-d-e-r-f-e-r. My granddad was John Standerfer, and they called him Bunyan.


SMALLING: Yeah. [Laughs.]

SCHLEIDT: These names! Oh, my goodness!

SMALLING: Good names. And this little gentleman [referring to someone in a photo] was a contractor, and he was Tommy Ware. He had a team.

SCHLEIDT: The gentleman on the left-hand side of the photograph?

SMALLING: Standing.

SCHLEIDT: Standing? Okay.

SMALLING: And this one up here is [Wallace (“Dick”)] Jess Buck, and he worked—or Tommy and Jess Buck’s sons—they lives at Mena.

SCHLEIDT: Oh, do they?

SMALLING: Dick Buck. I don’t know if you would ever get to know him or not.

SCHLEIDT: I’ve not even known of him.

SMALLING: I wish you could interview him, but I don’t know.

SCHLEIDT: Why is that?


SMALLING: [Chuckles.]

SCHLEIDT: Okay. How old do you think he is, in his eighties?

SMALLING: Eighties, in the eighties somewhere.

SCHLEIDT: Okay. All right. So if you moved here in 1940, you were six years old.


SCHLEIDT: That means—

SMALLING: —actually, I started to school right away after we moved into—below Cannon Town. We were still living out at our little houses.


SMALLING: So that—it would have been about—about six years old.

SCHLEIDT: So first grade, I guess. About first grade?

SMALLING: I started—then they had what they called the primer [pronounced PRIM-er]. The first grade teacher had a little book she called the primer, and everybody had to go through that little book before he became a first grader. But we lived on the spur, and so many days it was just my mom and me, and she taught me to read and print and do a little bit of arithmetic, so when I got to school, I didn’t have to do the primer; I already read it.

SCHLEIDT: [Laughs.]

SMALLING: So I started in the first grade. I got ahead of some of the kids.

SCHLEIDT: Very good!

SMALLING: Because, see, there are a lot of good things about living out like that.



SCHLEIDT: Yeah. Did you have any brothers or sisters at that point?

SMALLING: Not at that point. I was an only child till I was eleven.

SCHLEIDT: Ooh! That must have been [cross-talk; unintelligible; 9:24].

SMALLING: And then here came my sister and messed up everything.

SCHLEIDT: Aw, shucks!

SMALLING: Nn-nn-nn.

SCHLEIDT: Nn-nn-nn.

SMALLING: And then later on they had two boys, so have brothers and sister.

SCHLEIDT: Oh, my goodness. So when did you finish attending school.

SMALLING: Well, see, Forester only had eight grades.

SCHLEIDT: Oh, okay.

SMALLING: So then we had to ride the bus into Waldron, so that was a whole different life.

SCHLEIDT: So that was outside of Forester.

SMALLING: That was outside of Forester.

SCHLEIDT: They never had a high school in Forester?


SCHLEIDT: No? I guess it wasn’t worth it.

SMALLING: And, now, the colored people had their own school, too, down in their part of town.

SCHLEIDT: So you didn’t—you were not integrated.

SMALLING: No. Well, yes and no. They had their own school and their own church and their own entertainment center called the Barrel House. But they shared the company store and the post office, the ballpark and the theater. So, you know, so it wasn’t totally segregated.

SCHLEIDT: Okay. Did they have to sit separately from the whites when they were in the theater?

SMALLING: They sat in the balcony.

SCHLEIDT: In the balcony.

SMALLING: It was made, like, you know, upstairs, and they sat up there.


SMALLING: I’ve never heard anybody say they were forced to or anything. I think they liked their [part? 10:45], you know, same as we did ours.

SCHLEIDT: So did you go to any movies or shows while you were at Forester.

SMALLING: All the time. That was our main entertainment.

SCHLEIDT: You went to the little theater?

SMALLING: Yeah, they got a pretty good size little theater.



SCHLEIDT: That is nice sized theater for a little town. It’s called the Caddo Theater.

SMALLING: The Caddo Theater.

SCHLEIDT: Well, how do you like them apples?

SMALLING: You know, the Caddo River Lumber Company at that time.

SCHLEIDT: Uh-huh. Was it expensive to attend, to see a movie or to go to the shows?

SMALLING: Well, it’s kind of hard for me to say exactly how this all happened, but I think somebody from Glenwood came and talked to the company about building this so the people would have some entertainment, and he did, but then the company, I guess, took it over. I don’t know. And Dr. Thornton had a son, and he had married, and they needed a job, I guess, and they managed this theater. And I don’t know how they did this. There was people at Forester that had vision and insight that I can’t imagine at that time. But somehow or other, they made contacts and they got these movies, just like they got in Waldron. And I heard some people say that they came to Forester to see a movie that Waldron never did get. So, you know, I don’t know how these things happened, but we got all the latest movies, just like [cross-talk; unintelligible; 12:22].

SCHLEIDT: Showing at the—

SMALLING: We had a show Friday, Saturday and Sunday nights, for sure, and then sometimes, you know, special ones. But that was the big thing. Everybody in Forester went to the show.

SCHLEIDT: Very good. How many churches were in Forester, that you recall?

SMALLING: In teachers?

SCHLEIDT: No, churches.

SMALLING: Oh. Okay. Only one building was for the colored people. They had their building. Then we had one big building, and I don’t have a picture of it. I don’t know why. Nobody [cross-talk; unintelligible; 12:52].

SCHLEIDT: Which denomination was it?

SMALLING: Well, it was—one week it was Methodist; the next week it was Baptist. [Laughs.]

SCHLEIDT: So you shared the same building.

SMALLING: Absolutely, the same building, and, you know, anybody could go. And they had a different minister, you know, a Baptist and a Methodist, and they shared it. Then later on, there was some—I don’t know what they were, Pentacostals, but I’m going to say they probably were, that wanted a church. So the company didn’t have a building, but they told them they had some field houses down by the creek on the railroad. They had been railroad tool houses. And they told them if they could use them, they could have them.


SMALLING: I think they gave them two, and maybe they put them together. But they cleaned them up and worked them over, and they started another church, and they got their evangelists to come in, you know? And they had church.

SCHLEIDT: Wow! Isn’t that amazing? In tool sheds!

SMALLING: You know, it’s amazing to me till yet how people thought these things out and got everything going. They had a school, and the buildings were just regular little buildings, like a house that we all lived in, and they set these buildings in a semi-rectangular, and they started, like, a first grade here and then I think they went across cattycorner to the second grade, and then, you know, like, third and fourth and fifth and sixth, seventh. And then over here we had a big one that had part of the seventh and the eighth. And that was the principal’s office, too. So you started here in the first, and you worked up to this—

SCHLEIDT: Seventh and eighth grade.

SMALLING: —this big one I call the big house. But they had a library. They had regular books and workbooks and things, just like the cities did. They had the company manager. He was quite religious. They always talk about how long he could pray. [Laughs.] But his wife was a great organizer. She worked well with kids. She taught piano. She [unintelligible; 15:18] beautifully. And, you know, they worked in the church, they worked in the school, they worked in community things. We had a community hall where we could have Halloween carnivals or anything special. They worked with the people like that. It was just a phenomena, I think. [Laughs.] Because everybody worked at making Forester work—you know, as well the mill, the whole town worked.

SCHLEIDT: So did you do anything special for Halloween?

SMALLING: Yes, all the time. They’d have a Halloween carnival at the community hall every year.

SCHLEIDT: What do you mean by a Halloween carnival?

SMALLING: They would, you know, set up booths. And, I don’t know, maybe they charged a dime to go in, and they’d have, you know, some kind of entertainment or something spooky. And everybody would dress up, you know, and just—they called it a carnival.

SCHLEIDT: So you didn’t go from house to house, trick or treating, like [cross-talk; unintelligible; 16:16].

SMALLING: Well, you know, we really didn’t much. Now, the bigger kids liked to do the tricks, but they didn’t go treat or treating.


SMALLING: They turned those outhouses over.

SCHLEIDT: Oh, did they?

SMALLING: They turned those outhouses over every time.

SCHLEIDT: [Laughs.]

SMALLING: That was the big thing. And, you know, if they could find a trailer off of a truck or get one off of a truck or maybe get a log or something and pull it up in the middle of town, you know, just to block the town for a trick.


SMALLING: They’d do things like that. Not doing it actually ever hurt anybody or bother anything.

SCHLEIDT: Did the town do anything as a community for Christmas?

SMALLING: Always had a Christmas program, and some of the teachers—if I remember right, maybe Miss Wilson and, I don’t know for sure about it, but I know she was always really good to come to Waldron and buy food and hard candy and things and make special bags of treats for the kids and have a Christmas tree, draw names and give gifts. They always had something for everything.

SCHLEIDT: Where did that take place?

SMALLING: In the community hall.

SCHLEIDT: In the community hall?

SMALLING: And, of course, we did things like that at school. We’d have little school parties. Always had a Valentine party.

SCHLEIDT: Did the town do anything special for Fourth of July?

SMALLING: You know, I don’t really remember anything special as a town, but everybody always, you know, made homemade ice cream and lemonade and things that we didn’t have all year long. There would always be lots of special food and maybe parties at somebody’s house, but I don’t remember a special program.

SCHLEIDT: Did you have a special swimming hole?

SMALLING: We had gobs of swimming holes [chuckles] because, you know, we had creeks on all sides of the town.

SCHLEIDT: That’s right.

SMALLING: And what they call the Pump Hole behind the mill—and I guess the Pump Hole got its name from having a pump in the hole of water, to pump water up for the mill or anything.


SMALLING: So that was a big swimming hole, but there were several smaller ones for smaller kids. Down in our part of town, in Angel Town, we had a small puddle, I guess you’d call it, in [Ranner Branch? 18:47]. It was just big enough for just a few kids at a time, but we were all small, and, you know, we didn’t need a big hole. Then up in Carter Creek there was one just a little bit bigger, and then, like, I said, the Pump Hole was for the bigger kids.

SCHLEIDT: Oh, boy!

SMALLING: So we had swimming holes all over the place, and swings, lots of big trees, and I don’t know, I guess the men climbed those trees because they would put cables or chains or ropes up on the top of those trees, and then we’d hang an old tire or a burned out bag full of sawdust. You could run, pull that swing back, and run and throw your legs right in that bag of sawdust and just swing for ever and ever. [Laughs.]

SCHLEIDT: That sounds like fun!

SMALLING: Oh, it was fun.


SMALLING: Judge Wilson. He grew up there, and he said to him, looking back, growing up at Forester was like modern kids today would go away to camp, but we didn’t have to go away. We had it there all year long.

SCHLEIDT: Right, there in your back yard.

SMALLING: And you could wade the creek or you could fish if you were big enough. There’s just so many things you could do. And no worries about anybody being harmed. You could just [unintelligible; 20:22] trees or—you know, the creeks or whatever.

SCHLEIDT: Your biggest fear would probably be a snake. That’s about it.

SMALLING: You know, I wonder about not seeing very many snakes. I think there were so many of us running around, we kept the snakes—scared them off.

SCHLEIDT: Because you hardly saw a snake?

SMALLING: I don’t remember anybody snake bit.


SMALLING: I really don’t.


SMALLING: It seemed like everything was just so free, compared to today. You know, you’re afraid to go out after dark or can’t leave the door open. We didn’t have any door locks.



SCHLEIDT: What was your house like?

SMALLING: Ours down in Angel Town and most of them in Angel Town were just either a three-room shotgun, they call it, or two two-room houses with a breezeway and a little hall, which would make them a four-room house, you know. Most of them were three or four rooms. But, now, of course, uptown they had some nice three-rooms and some nice four- and five-rooms, and I don’t know what the biggest one, like Dr. Thornton’s or the manager’s might have been. They had one big house. I don’t remember what [unintelligible; 21:43]. I forget how many rooms it had. But the biggest house in Forester was a big [quiet? 21:48] house that the woods foreman had. And they tell me it was so nice it even had [cedar blinds? unintelligible; 21:55], and it had indoor plumbing, and it was a big one. I don’t remember how many rooms. Probably three or four bedrooms.

SCHLEIDT: Where was the house located?

SMALLING: It was located more or less in the field below the theater, and they were on the main road in Forester.

SCHLEIDT: Okay. So he lived closer to the mill.


SCHLEIDT: He lived closer to the mill, the sawmill?

SMALLING: Well, the colored people lived between the mill and the creek. That was their section., And then you had to come up on the hill to be in Forester. They were more or less down in the bottoms, I guess you’d call it. And the company manager’s home sat out close to the edge of the hill. I guess the company put him there so he could watch his mill. I don’t know whether that’s true or not.

SCHLEIDT: So there [unintelligible; 22:55] sections. There’s Green Town, Cannon Town, Angel Town and the Quarters.

SMALLING: And the water tank [unintelligible; 23:03] have a section of houses, and then there was a few houses down along the road, a tract called “section houses.”

SCHLEIDT: And those are near the—what were those near?

SMALLING: Section houses were yellow.


SMALLING: And I assume they [unintelligible; 23:19] belonged to the people who work on the train, because that’s what they would have called them, I think, section houses. And there was not very many of those.

SCHLEIDT: So Green, Cannon Town, Angel Town, Quarters, the section houses—

SMALLING: Did you get the water tank section?

SCHLEIDT: Water tank section. What were those houses like?

SMALLING: They were smaller and unpainted. Our houses were unpainted at first, but the company finally came around and painted all of them.

SCHLEIDT: Really? What color?

SMALLING: They painted them all green except I don’t believe they ever painted the colored people’s houses green; they were always red, if I remember it right.

SCHLEIDT: So that’s the Quarters?

SMALLING: The Quarters?


SMALLING: Was red.

SCHLEIDT: Interesting. Okay. So who lives in Green Town? Who lived in Green Town?

SMALLING: Well, just a mixture—you know, the company managers [unintelligible; 24:29] lived up there, but, you know, anybody could live up there that wanted to. Mostly Angel Town and Cannon Town were loggers, but a lot of loggers finally moved into Green Town, too.


SMALLING: You know, it was pretty well a mixture, I’d say. Like, this is the mill, so this would be the colored people’s quarters.


SMALLING: Okay. Then down in here would be the section houses. They were on the railroad. And across here comes this big white house, and the theater was along here someplace. Probably right here. And the ballpark was back here, and then the water tank section was up here, and back there’s the water tank. That’s where it got its name. And all of this was Green Town. This little section right here was called Happy Holler.

SCHLEIDT: Okay. [unintelligible; 25:28]?

SMALLING: Nobody knows.

SCHLEIDT: All right.

SMALLING: This is my attempt at—you can put this right here. Here’s Carter Creek. So then you’re going to be in Angel Town. And then you come down past Happy Holler, you’re going to go to Cannon Town, which is out on the Polecat Road.

SCHLEIDT: Oh, exciting! I’ve got to get someone to read you these maps.

SMALLING: Well, you see, I pretty well messed this one up because I had to erase some. This was the school up here, the old school. They made the new school over here.

SCHLEIDT: Did they discontinue using the old school, or was—

SMALLING: When they built the new school, they just turned it into houses for people to live in.

SCHLEIDT: Oh, okay.

SMALLING: But the big white church was right there, and this comes down to where the company garage was, the company store, office, drugstore, community hall—was all right in here. And the company manager lived here someplace along—on the top of the hill so he could look at his mill.

SCHLEIDT: Where is it?

SMALLING: Somewhere along here. I’m not sure.

SCHLEIDT: There’s the barbershop.

SMALLING: It’s kind of hard to tell.

SCHLEIDT: [unintelligible; 26:43]?

SMALLING: That was the post office, barbershop. This is a hotel.

SCHLEIDT: A hotel. Did you ever get to go in—

SMALLING: Depot and feed house.

SCHLEIDT: Did you ever get to go in the hotel?



SMALLING: We had a photographer come and make pictures in the hotel, and we all went up to have our picture made.

SCHLEIDT: Individually?

SMALLING: A portrait, you know. [Laughs.]

SCHLEIDT: Portraits?

SMALLING: Yeah, you’d go up and have your picture made at the hotel. But we didn’t have teachers there all the time, and they would get these teachers—well, actually, girls that were still in college but they could practice teach, and they hired them to come teach. They could live at the hotel I guess for free; I’m not sure about that. But the kids could take turns walking down to the hotel and getting lunches and bring them back to the teacher. That was such an exotic time, to go get the teacher’s lunch.

SCHLEIDT: So you’d go down to the hotel?

SMALLING: They had [unintelligible; 27:45] for lunch, and we’d carry it back to the teacher.

SCHLEIDT: Ohh! So that was something everybody wanted to do.

SMALLING: That was a treat.

SCHLEIDT: Because you got out of school!

SMALLING: I’m telling you. [Laughter.]

SCHLEIDT: You kids were smart!

SMALLING: And we had teachers that were not much older than some of the bigger kids. They’d play games with them. They’d jump a rope or, you know, play [unintelligible; 28:13].

SCHLEIDT: Yeah. I guess this is [unintelligible; 28:14].

SMALLING: You know, there’s something—

[End File 1. Begin File 2.]

SMALLING: [They were kids? 2-0:01]. They played games with us. They [unintelligible; 2-0:05], you know, play Flying Dutchman or Red Rover or [all those? 2-0:10] little games.

SCHLEIDT: So you got to see this last [summer? 2-0:16], the Forester map that they came out with? This dates from 1929.

SMALLING: It’s more or less the same layout for the mill, isn’t it, on this one we have?

SCHLEIDT: Yeah. I guess this was [unintelligible; 2-0:34].

SMALLING: You know, there’s something [unintelligible; 2-0:36]. Back when they did this, they have streets named, you know, but by the time we moved there, those streets didn’t have a name. I’ve never heard a name for a street. We lived in sections. And you lived in Angel Town, you lived in Green Town or whatever. But we never used street names.

SCHLEIDT: Okay, that’s interesting. Well, they obviously had names chosen by 1929, but why they chose not to use them, I don’t understand.


SCHLEIDT: This one [unintelligible; 2-1:12].

SMALLING: That’s the same one that you have [unintelligible; 2-1:13] only yours is still clean. I’ve marked mine up and erased out some names. I was trying to fill in things that are not on this, because, see, this—the town was not finished when this map was made.


SMALLING: It couldn’t have been.

SCHLEIDT: Nn-nn. Nn-nn. When did your family moved out of Forester?

SMALLING: When Forester left.

SCHLEIDT: Oh, when they closed it down?

SMALLING: Yeah. And my husband’s family, too. In fact, his dad bought the house he lived in and moved in down here to Cedar Creek, and [unintelligible; 2-1:48].

SCHLEIDT: So the company allowed their employees to [unintelligible; 2-1:53]?

SMALLING: They sold everything, and if you wanted your house, you could buy it. and I don’t remember the price, but they sold the houses by room. You know, they’d say—I don’t know whether it was fifty dollars a room or what, but I think Mom’s and Dad’s house was a four-room house, and he got it for either three hundred or three hundred and fifty dollars.

SCHLEIDT: Which must have been a lot of money in those days.

SMALLING: That’s a lot of money. Yeah. You bet. And that big white one I was telling you about?


SMALLING: It sold for fifteen hundred, I believe. And it’s still a good house.

SCHLEIDT: It’s still standing?

SMALLING: It’s still sitting right down at Cedar Creek where they moved it. It’s had several different owners since then. But they built those house from good lumber. It was planed lumber. It was dry kiln. And they didn’t have, like, this drywall and [unintelligible; 2-2:47], you know. You had another layer of lumber. It was all good lumber. And they didn’t rot. They lasted. [unintelligible; 2-3:01].

I wanted to show you this. And I want you to take those, if you will, and you’ll get a different view.


SMALLING: See, now, say, like, this book is a very good book.


SMALLING: But it’s more—

SCHLEIDT: About the business.

SMALLING: The business and the history and the [unintelligible; 2-3:25]. You’ll get the personal side there.

SCHLEIDT: Okay. Do you want me to make a photocopy and I’ll send it back to you?

SMALLING: Oh, you can take those, and you can keep them if you’d like.


SMALLING: Or if you know somebody else that would like to read them, I don’t mind [a bit? 2-3:40]. This was the main office, and I didn’t have that picture, but that’s in—

SCHLEIDT: Caddo River Lumber Company office. Oh! It looks like it’s snowing.

SMALLING: It’s not. [Laughs.] But what’s interesting: I just recently found out this office is right here in Waldron.

SCHLEIDT: Oh, they managed to save it.

SMALLING: Well, a man bought it for a home, and he bought it in three sections. Well, when he got it up here, though, he put the side rooms back on it, and these rooms are raw, and it’s got a room built across the front so you don’t see this, but this part is [unintelligible; 2-4:22], and just perfect.


SMALLING: And I [unintelligible; 2-4:28] and asked the lady about it, asked her if I could make pictures of it, and I don’t have them finished, but she invited me in, and I felt like I was at a time warp.


SMALLING: It was just like I’d kind of gone home.


SMALLING: That I was in the Forester office.

SCHLEIDT: So—I mean, how much of the interior looked the same?

SMALLING: Not much. They put different walls—I mean, you know, panels or something, and they’ve got carpet. But she told me—she said about here, underneath the carpet is the vault. The vault was in a basement underneath that, and it had I guess what you’d call a [chop board? 2-5:09]?


SMALLING: And that door was still there when she got it, but she’s covered it with carpet. But it’s there. And going in towards the bathroom, there’s still the same door facings just like they were when it was the office. It’s still got these white boards on the outside. And one little place next to the bathroom, there’s a little cabinet built on the wall that just looked like Forester so much because they built little things like that out of this tongue-and-groove lumber?


SMALLING: And then there was a little latch on it. She still had that, just like it was.


SMALLING: There was so much of it that looked—you know, looked right to me.

SCHLEIDT: Right. So where was this located?

SMALLING: [unintelligible; 2-6:00].

SCHLEIDT: Is that the office?

SMALLING: That’s the [unintelligible; 2-6:06].

SCHLEIDT: That’s the drugstore.

SMALLING: Drugstore. Actually, [unintelligible; 2-6:07]. Well, actually, it should have been—

SCHLEIDT: [unintelligible; 2-6:10]?

SMALLING: Yeah. This is the main [cross-talk; unintelligible; 2-6:11].

SCHLEIDT: Lodge hall?

SMALLING: Community hall. Yeah, this is the office. See, you’ve got the little side rooms.

SCHLEIDT: Oh! So it’s facing this way?

SMALLING: Yeah, it faced across the street [cross-talk; unintelligible; 2-6:21].

SCHLEIDT: From the commissary?


SCHLEIDT: Mmm! Okay!

SMALLING: Oh, that [cross-talk; unintelligible; 2-6:26].

SCHLEIDT: [cross-talk; unintelligible; 2-6:27] bring that back.

SMALLING: Oh, that was really a treasure. Well, you couldn’t get it because she loves it.

SCHLEIDT: Well, she might [unintelligible; 2-6:39].

SMALLING: No. You know, she doesn’t—she lives alone. I don’t know whether she has a family or not that would—you know. I don’t know.


SMALLING: I didn’t ask her—she’s lived there since ’58, I believe, so she’s probably not going anywhere.


SMALLING: And most people don’t know it’s there. I didn’t know it was there.

SCHLEIDT: How do you like them apples?

SMALLING: I drove down that street to see if I could find when they [told it was there? tore this one down? 2-7:06]. I didn’t see it. I’d go up and look. No, I couldn’t see it. So another day, I started down to the [unintelligible; 2-7:16] the courthouse, and I said to myself, I’m gonna look for that office again. So I was driving down the street, and I just happened to look up, and there was this cable?


SMALLING: There it was, just as plain—and I said to myself, Well, there it is!


SMALLING: [Laughs.] So I stopped and talked to her a while, and she let me go in it, you know?


SMALLING: I just really had a good day.

SCHLEIDT: So, then, the white house is still there in Waldron, and the office building is still in existence.

SMALLING: The white house is down at Cedar Creek.

SCHLEIDT: Cedar Creek. Okay. So they didn’t move that one too far, did they?

SMALLING: No, they didn’t.

Now, here shows you a little bit about the hotel looked.

SCHLEIDT: Oh, it’s a two-story—

SMALLING: It was two-story, uh-huh.

SCHLEIDT: —building. Oh, nice! And is that a screened porch?

SMALLING: Yeah, yeah. Mm-hm.

SCHLEIDT: Very nice. Who’s the lady in the picture?

SMALLING: I have no idea.

SCHLEIDT: No ideas?

SMALLING: I’ve not seen anybody that knows her.

SCHLEIDT: Okay. Wow. How many rooms do you think the hotel had?

SMALLING: I don’t know. I believe it told it in the [Kenneth L.] Ken Smith book [Sawmill: The Story of Cutting the Last Great Virgin Forest East of the Rockies], but I don’t remember.

SCHLEIDT: Okay. It looks fairly big.

SMALLING: It’s very big. The whole town was big.

SCHLEIDT: It’s hard to imagine because you go out there and all you see are trees, and, you know, you’re thinking, Well, what—

SMALLING: You just get that in your mind that a little sawmill town just [unintelligible; 2-8:43].

SCHLEIDT: Mm-hm, mm-hm.

SMALLING: But it wasn’t. It was huge. The mill and the lumber shed was huge, and the whole town—although—because it took in so much and, you know, had trees in places that hadn’t been cleared right between Angel Town and Cannon Town and the main part of town, so it was just so much bigger than people could imagine.

SCHLEIDT: Mm-hm. So you went to school there from first grade to eighth grade?


SCHLEIDT: And then you went to Waldron for high school.

SMALLING: Well, I just went a short time, and then we moved to another state.

SCHLEIDT: Oh, you did? Okay, because by then—

SMALLING: See, work was not that great.


SMALLING: And so we moved away.

SCHLEIDT: When do you think your father left? Do you recall when you left the Forester area?

SMALLING: We left the state in ’54. And, see, Forester had moved out in ’52, so we lived a short time somewhere in between.

SCHLEIDT: I’d like to get copies of those.

SMALLING: Okay. [It’s possible they make them? 2-9:44] because this is my main project right now, is trying to keep Angel Town from being lost. I took Judge Forbes [unintelligible; 2-9:57], and he made a copy of it, and showed him where it went on because, see, he didn’t know this, neither. And he’s working really well right now trying to work with the Forest Service and with all of us to try to get Forester [sign? 2-10:14] permanently some way, you know.

SCHLEIDT: It says, “1935. Caddo River Lumber Company was sold to Dierks Lumber [sic; Dierks Lumber and Coal Company].”


SCHLEIDT: And the sale included both the Forester mill and the town. And then 22,000 acres of Caddo Lumber Company land was sold to the Forest Service throughout the thirties. So under Dierks, they created [drawing and crating? 2-10:49], and then eventually they sold out to Weyerhaeuser.

SMALLING: Weyerhaeuser. They just sold land to Weyerhaeuser. Dierks, you know, sold the town and the mill, and Weyerhaeuser just bought the land.

SCHLEIDT: The land and the timber on it.

SMALLING: The timber.

SCHLEIDT: Okay. So [did] any boxing or baseball or basketball take place in the—

SMALLING: Baseball was the main thing at Forester. They had a white team, and they had a black team. And they played each other or played with each other.

SCHLEIDT: Mm-hm. Oh, with each other?



SMALLING: It didn’t bother them. They had so much fun. Now, I don’t have any pictures of the black team. I don’t know. Maybe one will surface someday, like [unintelligible; 2-11:40].

SCHLEIDT: Did they go around to other towns and play?

SMALLING: Some. Yeah, they did. This is the white team. At one time. It changed over the years. You can’t tell much about it, but we actually had a bleacher.

SCHLEIDT: Oh, you did.

SMALLING: They called it the grandstand.

SCHLEIDT: The grandstand! Yeah. [Chuckles.]

SMALLING: It was a dirt field, and just a lumber—

SCHLEIDT: No grass.

SMALLING: No. No, no, no. I was going to tell you, the only grass, really pretty lawn was at the office.


SMALLING: I can remember that, and I was really small when I saw that. Most of our mill—you know, the street was just dirt, and around those residences they didn’t try to keep a lawn. [unintelligible; 2-12:21] office had a picket fence and a little green lawn all the way around it.

SCHLEIDT: Isn’t that nice?

SMALLING: That was so—that was really amazing.

SCHLEIDT: Not even the doctor had a lawn?


SCHLEIDT: The doctor didn’t have a lawn.

SMALLING: I guess he probably did, but it was not—not like that. They kept that watered and mowed. It was just perfect.


SMALLING: But for the most part, we had dirt streets.

SCHLEIDT: Did you eat at home during school, or did you take your lunch to school and eat inside?

SMALLING: We mostly took our lunch when we were small, and then when we got a little bigger, we thought we were a little bit too big to be carrying that little old sack, you know, so we would run when they rang the bell for lunch. We would run so we can get home in time to eat and run back and have time to play.

SCHLEIDT: Oh, recess.


SCHLEIDT: Oh, okay. That’s the important thing.

SMALLING: And, see, we had a separate bell house.

SCHLEIDT: A separate bell house?

SMALLING: It had a big iron bell in it on the top, and a rope hanging down, and every day a student would be selected to go ring the bell for lunch [unintelligible; 2-13:39] in the afternoon. And that was a treat. And I can remember that I wanted to go ring that bell. But when it finally came my turn, I got worried. What if I can’t pull that hard and make that bell turn on? Oh, you know, that was a relief when that thing rang! I was going to show you that bell house. It shows—right here.

SCHLEIDT: Oh, okay. Yes.

SMALLING: And this is the first grade building, and this is the bell house, and the big church house was here. And then this is the big eighth grade building over here, but it doesn’t show much. And those other little buildings all sat around in that semi-rectangle. And we had a water fountain out in the center. You can’t see that for all these kids. But the company built up little trails. It had four spigots, and they built up a little trail to all four of those, you know, so when it got muddy and wet, we can stay up on that [a little high? 2-14:37] [unintelligible; 2-14:39] sort of to get a drink.

SCHLEIDT: Oh. Does any of that exist?


SCHLEIDT: No? Nothing?

SMALLING: None of that exists. Now, the new school building that they built right here—the foundation is still there.

SCHLEIDT: Oh, is it?

SMALLING: And we used to drive up to it fairly often, but now it’s grown up so you can’t walk up there and you can’t drive up there because of all the trees. Maybe when the burn it off, we can find it because it is there. And next to the commissary there’s a little foundation right there because the ice house was there, and it had a cement foundation. And it was—I guess it was a wooden building, actually, but they had [unintelligible; 2-15:27] walls and they put sawdust in between the walls so the ice wouldn’t melt, and they’d get that ice brought in in those big hundred-pound blocks and stack it in there, and it would last a long time.

SCHLEIDT: Did you buy ice for your—

SMALLING: We’d buy ice. They had I guess a pickup, maybe. I don’t know. And then hired some schoolboy to drive the truck, and he would put this ice on the truck and come around, and we had a card about that big [demonstrates], and this card was marked with, like, five pounds, ten pounds, twenty-five pounds, fifty pounds. And you’d put that on your screen door and turn up the amount you wanted, you know, and then when he stopped, he saw how much ice you wanted, so he stopped and chipped it with his ice pick and cut it off and brought it in and put it in your icebox.

SCHLEIDT: Hmm! So you didn’t have to go to the ice house and get it yourself.


SCHLEIDT: They actually delivered it.


SCHLEIDT: Oh, very good.

SMALLING: Groceries were delivered. You could take a list up there, and they’d deliver groceries. And there was one other special delivery that I always laugh about, and that was the little two-wheel cart with one mule pulling it and one old man up on the seat, and he had a pack of lime and a shovel, and he’d drive up behind your house and go around to your outhouse and dip out whatever he could from under the outhouse and put a shovel full of lime in there, and then he’d haul all of that across a creek to sort of the mountains and dumped it out. That was our sanitary system.

SCHLEIDT: Mmm! Did that go on for a long time?

SMALLING: Yeah, pretty much all the time because, you know, like I said, a lot of the houses got indoor plumbing, but not all of them, so there’s a lot of places—always somebody needing their outhouse cleaned up.

SCHLEIDT: Mm-hm. Isn’t it amazing?

SMALLING: And, you know, I can remember [unintelligible; 2-17:36]. It was so exciting, too. Once in a while, the company would have these new outhouses built if your outhouse was falling down. Well, here would come the delivery pickup with two or three of these new outhouses on it. And the kids would get so excited! [Laughs.]

SCHLEIDT: Excited about an outhouse! Okay!

SMALLING: If that truck would back up to your house, you were getting a new outhouse! We called the toilets.

SCHLEIDT: Toilets. Okay.

SMALLING: And then unload that new toilet. And it would smell so good for a day or two.

SCHLEIDT: Excellent!

SMALLING: [Laughs.] That new lumber, you know.

SCHLEIDT: Mm-hm, mm-hm.

SMALLING: You know, it didn’t take much to make them happy. It really didn’t.

SCHLEIDT: Did you help your mom with the laundry?



SMALLING: I don’t know. My mom was always this really industrious person, and she had a certain schedule that she liked to keep—

[Transcriber’s note: The audio goes silent at 2-18:39 and returns at 2-18:54]

SCHLEIDT: Why did she like Mondays?

SMALLING: She would rather do her wash on Monday if it was fit weather. And, you know, she liked to get hers out early, and those clothes had to be perfectly white and hung on that line, and then brought in and put away, the clothes like our dresses and the men’s shirts. They put starch in them. And, you know, they had to be sprinkled and rolled up, and then the next day she’d iron them. She had a wash day and an iron day. You know, she just pretty well had her schedule, and she did it. She was a real worker. And she always had a milk cow, chickens and usually a pig. You know, she was a farm girl. I don’t know how she quite survived being a logger’s wife [laughs], but she did! She was a tough old girl.

SCHLEIDT: Did you have a fence around your property, your house?

SMALLING: Well, they didn’t have—I mean, the company didn’t have, but you could get any amount of scrap lumber that you wanted to build anything, like an outhouse or shed, and they had strips and sort of like [palings? 2-20:11], I think they called them. And you could get them and build a yard if you wanted to. So we usually did.

SCHLEIDT: Because I imagine you want to keep your chickens and your pig and your cow within a fenced area.

SMALLING: You could build any amount of those little outbuildings or fences around them, but, yeah, the company furnished you just about anything you wanted or needed.

SCHLEIDT: Did you have to milk the cow?


SCHLEIDT: Oh, who did that?

SMALLING: I never did learn to milk the cow.

SCHLEIDT: You didn’t?

SMALLING: I was not a farm person. [Laughs.]

SCHLEIDT: Did your sister or your brothers?




SCHLEIDT: Who did it, Mom?

SMALLING: No, we were Daddy’s kids when it came to that. We were logger’s kids. We were not farmers. Never were. [Laughs.]

SCHLEIDT: Did your mom grow her own garden?

SMALLING: Yes. And canned her vegetables and bought fruit. We’d have peddlers bringing peaches and apples and such, you know, and she canned fruit. And, of course, we picked anything wild that grew, and she put up jelly and things like that. She did everything like that. She sewed. She quilted. She made our dresses, you know. I didn’t get any of that talent.

SCHLEIDT: You didn’t.


SCHLEIDT: Did anybody in your family?

SMALLING: Well, I had one daughter, and she’s sort of like me. She didn’t do any of that either. [Laughs.]

SCHLEIDT: So your mom made your clothes?


SCHLEIDT: Did your mom make your clothes?

SMALLING: Oh, yes.

SCHLEIDT: Your dresses?

SMALLING: She never got so she liked what she called ready-made dresses.

SCHLEIDT: Oh, she didn’t like them.

SMALLING: Never did. [Phone rings.]

SCHLEIDT: So where did she buy the fabric?

SMALLING: She liked to make her own dress. She’d buy her fabric, and she didn’t have to have a pattern. She could just cut out a dress and sew it. She and her mother did that all her life. And she never did like ready-made dresses.

SCHLEIDT: Wow. Where’d she go to buy the fabric?

SMALLING: Well, she can buy the fabric at that company store, and when we lived at Forester, that company store had everything. It was like a miniature Wal-Mart. [Laughs.] It had it all—you know, what we had back then. It had departments. When you walked in the front door, directly to your right you would see, like, ready-made clothing and shoes and materials [to sew? 2-22:26] and all that kind of thing. And directly over to your left you’d find a case full of candy, and then you would find groceries. It had a butcher shop. It had an office up kind of on a different level for the workers. It had a hardware section. Something to get some furniture. It had everything that Forester people needed. [Intercom sounds in the background.]

SCHLEIDT: Where do you think you got your furniture? Was that homemade or was that—

SMALLING: Well, a lot of furniture was homemade, like our tables and our chairs. A lot of those were. And we got just what they call iron bedsteads and cotton mattresses. But we always had feather beds, too.

SCHLEIDT: Oh, did you?

SMALLING: The women in our family always made feather beds. We had an extra bed on top of our mattress. We had good beds.

SCHLEIDT: Oh, good.

SMALLING: But [at] the company store we’ll get, like, free-standing kitchen cabinet, and they had stoves and wood-burning heaters, and once in a while they would get, like, some nice furniture. I can remember going in that store one day, and there sat a sofa, and it was blue, royal blue. And I thought that was such a pretty thing. We called it a couch. We never had a couch. Some of the people uptown did, but we didn’t. We had a wooden rocker. [Laughs.] Or two.

SCHLEIDT: Two rockers?

SMALLING: But not long after I saw that couch, the delivery truck backed up to our house one day and unloaded it at our house. Whoa! I mean, we felt like we had mooooved on up! We had a couch! [Laughs.]

SCHLEIDT: So your parents bought the blue couch?

SMALLING: They bought the blue couch.

SCHLEIDT: Mmm! So now you had two rockers and a couch.

SMALLING: Yeah. [Laughs.] Two rocking chairs and a couch.

SCHLEIDT: Oh, my gosh! You must have fought to see who’s going to sit on it first. [Laughs.]

SMALLING: Mm-hm. I can pretty well assure you who sat on it first.

SCHLEIDT: Who was that?

SMALLING: Me. [Laughs.]


SMALLING: Yeah, yeah, that was something else.


SMALLING: By the time we had lived in Forester a short time, we all had a radio, a battery-operated radio and then finally an electric one, but there wasn’t much on it to hear, but we liked it all. And that was the only, you know, entertainment like that.

SCHLEIDT: No phonographs.

SMALLING: Well, we didn’t have. A few people, I guess, around town began to get them. Now, the first one that I saw was my mother’s folks’, and they lived on the farm. And they called it “the talking machine.” And it had the crank on the side that you cranked it up, you know, and then put the needle on this biiig record, and I played it lots. Of course, I already knew about talking machine. But then they finally began to get the little electric one at Forester that would play one record. But my husband’s folks bought a combination, I think they called it, radio and record player. It’s all in one cabinet, and it was electric. I guess probably the first one in Forester. I’m not sure. I know it was the first one in Angel Town.

I remember it so well because of a family that lived down at Nola. Were really good sings, and they decided—they were a quarter. They decided they wanted to make a record, and they went I believe to Hot Springs, and the made the record, and I don’t know if they played it back for them because they came home, and they didn’t have a record player. And they began to check around on who’s got a record player. They wanted to hear themselves sing. They found out that the Smalling family had a record player. This was my husband’s family. So they came down and wanted to know if they could play their record on that record player. And they said, “Sure, come on in.” And they brought that thing in there, and they put it on, and you turned it on with a switch, and then you took the needle and set it over there yourself, you know? And they set the needle on there, and it just said, “Zap!” and went all the way to the [mill and quit? 2-26:52]. Didn’t make a sound. And everybody just looked at each other, and they wondered, “What’s wrong?”

So we tried it again. And that happened two or three times, and they couldn’t figure it out. And suddenly the little light went off, and I said, “Wait a minute.” I took the needle and set it in the middle—I mean—yeah, I mean in the middle of the record, and it just started slowly playing back, and they just started singing away. They had cut the record backwards.

SCHLEIDT: Oh, you’re kidding me!

SMALLING: And they didn’t know it.

SCHLEIDT: Oh, my gosh.

SMALLING: And it was always [unintelligible; 2-27:31] strangest happening to me.

SCHLEIDT: I’ve never seen that before.

SMALLING: I never seen it before, myself.


SMALLING: But that record was cut in reverse. And those people—oh, they were so disappointed, they thought, We’re never gonna get to hear ourselves sing. But they did. I don’t know what they did after they left the Smallings, whether they [unintelligible; 2-27:54] with a record player and play it some more or not.

SCHLEIDT: So you went all the way—I mean, you lived there through junior high school and then left the state. Did you meet your husband when he was living in Forester?

SMALLING: We both lived in Angel Town. As a matter of fact, he lived right over in here [apparently points to a place on the map] most of his life.

SCHLEIDT: [unintelligible; 2-28:21]?

SMALLING: And I lived up here on the corner. But we were small then, you know, very small.

SCHLEIDT: Did you know each other when you were growing up?

SMALLING: Well, a little. Not too much. He was five years older than me, and, you know, when you’re that young, that’s a lot. He played with the big boys, and I played with the little girls, you know? But then after we began to grow up and, you know, the age difference kind of faded away and we finally got to—I think we started looking at each other down at the theater, at the show or something like that.

SCHLEIDT: How old do you think you were?

SMALLING: I don’t know how old we were when we first started looking at each other, but anyway, we finally got together, and we’ve been together fifty-eight years now. I guess something must have turned out right. [Laughs.]

SCHLEIDT: So where did you get married?


SCHLEIDT: In 1950?


SCHLEIDT: What town?

SMALLING: Well, Hardy, close to Forester.

SCHLEIDT: Oh, okay.

SMALLING: Whew! And, see, our one daughter was born there, but she doesn’t remember it. It means nothing to her. She grew up in New Mexico.

SCHLEIDT: Oh, so you moved to Mex- —

SMALLING: We moved to New Mexico back when Forester left.

SCHLEIDT: Was that just you and your husband?

SMALLING: And the one little girl.

SCHLEIDT: Okay. So by the time you got back here, everything was gone.

SMALLING: Oh, everything was really nearly gone by the time we left.

SCHLEIDT: Oh, okay. Okay.

SMALLING: So when we came back, we could always drive up there and look around, you know, until Weyerhaeuser planted his [own? 2-29:55] trees.

SCHLEIDT: The loblollies [loblolly pine trees].

SMALLING: [Laughs.]

SCHLEIDT: Let me ask you: There is a Forester Historical Society.

SMALLING: Oh, yeah.

SCHLEIDT: There’s a formal organization called the Forester Historical Society.

SMALLING: Right. When Weyerhaeuser bought that, you know, there was enough people still around that lived there that wanted a place where they could go and have their reunions. They’d always had a reunion, but they just had them at different spots around, and it didn’t work out well for everybody because they never knew where it was going to be or [unintelligible; 2-20:39], so they formed this Forester Historical Society, and I don’t know whether Weyerhaeuser or the Forest Service—it may have been the Forest Service, one or the other—I don’t know if they gave them this property or if they bought it. I don’t know the details.

SCHLEIDT: [Was it the? 2-30:57] town of Forester, the little piece of—

SMALLING: It’s the mill pond site.

SCHLEIDT: That was purchased by the association. I remember reading this.

SMALLING: And I don’t remember the acreage.

SCHLEIDT: It’s nine acres.

SMALLING: They’ve got this place down at the mill pond site, and that’s belongs to the Forester Historical Society.

SCHLEIDT: We’ve got, “In 1996 the Forest Service acquired 2,206 acres, which included all but nine acres of the former site of Forester town through a congressionally authorized land exchange between Weyerhaeuser and the United States. The other nine acres [were the sawmill was? 2-31:48] to have been purchased by the Forester Historical Society, which turned over the land to Scott County.” So now the county owns the property.

SMALLING: Mmmmm, I don’t think so.


SMALLING: Now, I’m pretty sure of that. But, now, I’m not going to say for sure. I’m pretty sure that the Forester Historical Society owns it. Now, the Scott County will go and clean it up, and they do have an interest in it, but I’m pretty sure it doesn’t belong to them.

SCHLEIDT: Okay. Well, I was told that at one point a deed was turned up by Miss [Amie] Galloway, that the deed was turned over to the county.

SMALLING: Well, that could be. Now, Miss Galloway knows, but I don’t.

SCHLEIDT: Okay. Something about figuring that the county would probably have more resources to do something with it, more than the Society would have. So the Society has been around for twenty,—

SMALLING: A long time.

SCHLEIDT: —thirty years?

SMALLING: Let’s see. They had the first reunion at that park in ’83?


SMALLING: I believe that’s right, so they’ve been in control of it—I don’t know to what degree, but—

SCHLEIDT: That’s twenty-five years this year, if that’s the—

SMALLING: And they’ve never missed a year yet since—I wrote a piece for the paper after the last reunion, and I took a copy to the judge, I think. If I didn’t, I meant to. I don’t know. But, you know, I said it seems strange that people are forever saying, “Well, the Forester reunion will play out.” That’s the way they say it, that Forester people will quit coming back. But they haven’t. It still goes on every year.

SCHLEIDT: So do a lot of the children get together? I mean, is it just your generation or is it the next generation?

SMALLING: No. No, it’s anybody and everybody. And, of course, my generation is the older generation now, and there’s not that many of us left, but it seems like the younger ones are getting more interested in it every year. There’ll be somebody’s children or grandchildren come, and they want to know something about it because, see, their folks are gone now and they don’t know, and they want to. You know, that’s one of the surprising things about this. Not only are the older ones still coming that can; the younger ones are coming that never have. Dr. Thornton’s granddaughter and her husband was there this year for the first time.


SMALLING: [unintelligible; 2-34:28]. We got out there and [waited? waded? 2-34:32] in those barns, trying to find where Dr. Thornton lived. They were so thrilled, and they have already been back up there since the reunion, looking around. And we’ve had several people, you know, contact us, wanting to know things. They want books. They want literature. They want to know something about this place.

And I know one girl my age, lives in Florida, came through there one time, and she could find nothing, you know, that told her where she used to live or anything. And she was so disappointed. And, you know, with that [unintelligible; 2-35:13], if we get this on the list of historical places and get it cleaned up and some signing, people will come back to see their old home.

SCHLEIDT: My understanding, from having spoken to Miss Galloway, is that—and I’m not sure whose interest this is, but she talks about creating a hiking trail.

SMALLING: I don’t know who thought that up first, but it seems to me that it might have been between her and the judge, the county judge. I’m not sure.

SCHLEIDT: Okay. See, I wanted us to have a formal sit-down meeting with your Historical Society to find out what it is that you want the Forest Service to help you to do. And speaking of Miss Galloway, it was to create a trail. Okay, what kind of trail do you want? Do you want it rustic? Do you want it paved? Do you want it handicapped accessible? Where do you want the trail to go? What do you want it to be, just a hiking trail? Do you want interpretation? What do you want [unintelligible; 2-36:17]? Where do you want the trail? Those questions I have that no one’s—no one’s answered them, and I guess it’s going to be my responsibility to approach the Society—

SMALLING: Well, now, you don’t—

SCHLEIDT: —with these questions and then have the Society come up with what it is they want the Forest Service to help them do.

SMALLING: I can’t speak for the Society. I don’t even belong to the Society.

SCHLEIDT: Oh, really!

SMALLING: But here are some of my thoughts on this, and I don’t know how they feel, and it’s kind of hard to get them together. They do have a meeting and appointed some more members. Some of them had died or moved away, so they have appointed some members, and I don’t know what they plan to do. But here is what—and it’s my ideas. You know, I don’t want the town lost.


SMALLING: It needs to be remembered, you know, and something there to tell these younger people what it was so they can look back at their heritage, their beginnings, you know. And the only misgiving I have about one thing—somebody mentioned a museum. Okay. I would love that. But vandals have always tore up things.

SCHLEIDT: Over there at the pavilion?

SMALLING: Up there and everywhere else in this county. And it bothered me to think that if we put our souvenirs, pictures and so on up there, would they be there?

SCHLEIDT: Well, when we spoke to the judge—I guess it was earlier this spring—yeah, there’s two judges in Waldron—she spoke of converting the nine acres into a campground, a formal campground—you know, for RVs and having tent pads and all that other stuff, and having electrical hookups and everything, and that it would within the nine acres that they own, supposedly the county owns. And the word was mentioned about a museum, and I thought, well, if they had someone who lived there—


SCHLEIDT: —for a caretaker, then I think you could have a museum—

SMALLING: You could.

SCHLEIDT: —because there would be someone living there and probably a county employee.

SMALLING: Could you ever get somebody?

SCHLEIDT: We’d have to hire someone who’d be, like, a campground host, somebody who maintains, oversees the campground.

SMALLING: Well, you know, that would be way out of my range of thought.

SCHLEIDT: So I thought the museum would be something further down the road, where we have a more developed campground, and you have someone living there who could actually maintain the grounds and keep [cross-talk; unintelligible; 2-39:08].

SMALLING: Then you might think of your—

SCHLEIDT: Then you might come up with something like that.

SMALLING: But, now, as far as the trail, now, I like that idea a lot because—

SCHLEIDT: My idea—because I have no idea what the Society wants—was I would assume that the areas that would be of most interest [unintelligible; 2-39:28] comes out to see the Forester, would be the mill. That’s one thing, and that’s owned by the county, the sawmill, the [unintelligible; 2-39:35]. And the other place would be the area where the more public buildings were located.


SCHLEIDT: And that is something that someone’s going to have to do an archaeological survey and figure out where the—and probably the assistance of folks like you who remember where these buildings were located. And what I could see is creating some sort of trail that goes around the main street and would stop along where the buildings were and do a interpretative display and say, “Right here used to be the commissary.”

SMALLING: Right. Now, that it is—what I see in my mind is this trail that would—you know, maybe you would want to start it at the mill. I don’t know where you’d want to start it and anywhere you’d want to go. But if it came up from the mill, you know, you could say, “Here’s where the community hall was,” “This was the main office,” and have, like, a little sign, a little permanent signing for every place of interest like that. And, you know, I think it should go past the school, the old school, the new school, the ballpark and every place of interest like that, and the theater. That would be a nice long trail if it went to all those—if it didn’t have anything but just a little old what—cement something or other that would be permanent that says, “This is where”—because you couldn’t say, “This is where everybody lived.”


SMALLING: But the people who lived there could find where they used to go.

SCHLEIDT: Right. I think you’d want some sort of interpretation at the pavilion, you know.


SCHLEIDT: What this area was. Now, has anybody tried to get a highway marker—you know, one of those historical markers that you normally find along the side of a highway?

SMALLING: Ooh! Wouldn’t that be wonderful?

SCHLEIDT: One of those bronze—


SCHLEIDT: Has anyone tried for that?

SMALLING: I don’t know. But, you know, Amie—well, you say Miss Galloway; I say Amie—


SMALLING: She and I talked about that years ago—you know, about wouldn’t it be wonderful if we could get one of those markers? If nothing else, but just that.


SMALLING: But, you know, if we had that and the trail, it would just—well, it would just be a dream come true to me. I know to her, too.

SCHLEIDT: Well, I understand the appeal of creating a campground, and so I’m just—and we approach this about the trail—I’ve kind of been left hanging: What do you exactly envision the trail to look like? I mean, it’s not for me, really, to decide what the trail should be; it’s your memories, and it’s your interpretation, so the direction should come from the members, the past employees and people who lived at Forester. So you’re saying you’re not a member of the Society.

SMALLING: No, I’m not a member of the Society. Judge Wilson calls me their unofficial historian. I just work at trying to find people and get people up there and contact them and things like this, and trying to get Angel Town saved. That’s what I do. You know, to me it’s not work; it’s something I love to do.

SCHLEIDT: Who’s the president of the Society?

SMALLING: Well, you know, I’m not sure. It might be Judge Wilson. I don’t remember.

SCHLEIDT: Okay. All right. You think the county judge would know, more than likely? I mean, he deals with [cross-talk; unintelligible; 2-43:05].

SMALLING: I don’t know. Amie knows.

SCHLEIDT: I’ll speak with Miss Galloway.

SMALLING: Now, Jo Parker I believe stepped down from something to secretary or treasurer or something because she moved to Fort Smith. She’s not here to take care of everything like she did. Now, she was one of the main ones, and some have died, so I really don’t know who they appointed and who is what.

SCHLEIDT: Did you go to the reunion this year?

SMALLING: Pard’ me?

SCHLEIDT: Did you go to the reunion in October?


SCHLEIDT: Okay. I assume the Society meets then, too, all the members.

SMALLING: I think it was after that that they had their meeting and chose these new members, so I just don’t know that much about it. Amie told me, but, now, if it didn’t write it down, it went out of my mind. [Laughs.] But anyway, Amie or Judge Wilson or Jo Parker would know, you know, if you contacted any of them.

But back to the trail. You know, Forester never had paved roads. One time, they put a little bit of maybe tar and gravel or something on some of the roads, which improved them, but as far as actual pavement, they didn’t—so I don’t see a trail paved up there. I think it would be more of a rustic, maybe just gravel or something.

SCHLEIDT: No, no, no, no. I’m saying that you can create a paved or cement, sort of like a sidewalk type of trail if you want it handicap accessible, you know, something like that.

SMALLING: But, of course, now, Amie thought of that, and I hadn’t even thought of that. You know, she was already ahead of me on that. [Laughs.] But, you know, I guess I’m kind of a—tend to want to kind of keep it rustic like it used to be or something. I don’t know. But you might—it probably would be better to something a little better.

SCHLEIDT: It depends on funding. Rustic could be the least expensive.

SMALLING: And I think that’s what Judge Forbes had in his mind about these campers and hookups. You know, that might bring in a little money that would help on something like that. He’s a pretty good thinker.


SMALLING: And he’s the first one we’ve ever had that’s had an interest in it. This county always has been perfectly willing to let Forester die, and probably nobody has any idea of how much money, how much revenue Waldron made.

SCHLEIDT: Who else besides yourself would have photographs that could be used for the interpretive displays?

SMALLING: Well, now, Jo Parker has some, but she’s put on some videos. You might could—I don’t know whether they’ve got them ready or not.

SCHLEIDT: Jo Parker?

SMALLING: Jo Parker. She moved to Fort Smith.

SCHLEIDT: Oh, is that the lady—I think that’s the lady that George [W.] Gatliff was trying to get a hold of.

SMALLING: It probably was.

SCHLEIDT: And we never did meet with her. Let’s see, we were meeting you first—

SMALLING: Right here is the Historical Society’s box. I think she takes care of anything that goes to anything that goes to that box, unless she’s turned it over to somebody else lately. If she does, they ought to get a box if you wanted to contact somebody. I know she got a lot of pictures. Forester had a photographer at one time. [Transcriber’s note: She is referring to John Sanders.]

SCHLEIDT: Oh, they did?

SMALLING: And he just made pictures of the people and the town and everything. And after he had been dead several years, his son contacted Jo Parker and said he had a lot of his dad’s pictures and asked if she’d like to have them, you know, for the Historical Society, and of course she said yes. And they tried to put some on a video, but they didn’t turn out well. But they had another one up there this year, and asked people to sign if they wanted to get a new one. So maybe she’s got some more pictures out of this photographer’s collection. I just—I get so carried away with seeing some of my old friends that I forget to take some of these [laughs; unintelligible; 2-47:31] out.

SCHLEIDT: That’s okay.

SMALLING: Well, that’s the way I do it, anyway. [Laughs.]

SCHLEIDT: Okay. We applied for a grant for—we haven’t heard from the National Forest Foundation about helping us with burning the area and then—

SMALLING: Well, that’s a major—sounds like a way to start, to get rid of that underbrush and see what’s actually still there.

SCHLEIDT: Yeah. And then having a contractor come out and do the survey, the archaeological survey to see what remains of the area that was ripped by Weyerhaeuser.

SMALLING: Yeah. Oh, boy, they ripped it. [Laughs.]

SCHLEIDT: They certainly ripped it.

SMALLING: I sure wish they hadn’t, but, you know, there was just nothing anybody could do about it. That’s their—

SCHLEIDT: They sold it.

SMALLING: Yeah, and that’s their philosophy, you know. If they cut it, they plant it back. And, you know, that’s good. But it messed up our town.

SCHLEIDT: It did. Hopefully there’s something out there still, some sort of concrete foundation that we’ll be able to say, “This is what was the commissary” and “This is what’s left of the post office.” And then maybe one day we can get those two houses [unintelligible; 2-48:40].

SMALLING: [Laughs.] I wouldn’t count on the office. That big one down at Cedar—there’s nobody in it. It belongs to a family of Laotians, I think, because it belonged to some people that had a chicken farm, and they bought it, so, you know, that one you might get that. But, boy, it would be a booger to move! But there are some other little houses around. I don’t know whether they’d be available or not. It’s hard to say. You know how people build out there. If I had one, you couldn’t have it for nothing. No, you can have it for nothing, right! [Laughter.]

SCHLEIDT: Well, strange things have been known to happen. I remember we were on the Osceola [National Forest]. There was a gentleman who bought the old train depot, out of the old town of Olustee [Florida]. And when they talked about building the old depot, he donated it back to the town with the proviso that it was going to be used as a museum, and that’s [when we had it moved? 2-49:55]. He moved it out of town, and then he moved it all the way back, on the back of a flatbed. Had to closed the roads. They moved this old depot back into town. And now it’s a museum.

SMALLING: There’s just any amount of Forester buildings that were, you know, scattered around and have been fallen down, and some of been destroyed, and some of have been changed—you know, remodeled and you can’t tell about them. But there’s bound to be some one somewhere we can find.

I’ve got a story. I always have to tell this. Just a few years ago, my sister-in-law, who had become a widow—she and her son bought some property down here at Cedar Creek, not far from Forester, and the old farm house on it was no good, and she bought a new trailer and moved it up on this property and moved up here from Mountain Pine. And while they were clearing brush off around—you know, to make a yard around her trailer, what do you think they found sitting out there in mint condition? A Forester toilet.

SCHLEIDT: Gee! How did she know it was a Forester toilet?

SMALLING: Oh, it was green. See, they paint their outhouse to match their house.


SMALLING: And when they sold Forester, people out in the farms had never even had an outhouse, and they all rushed up there and bought an outhouse. Or if you bought a house, you got your toilet with it if you wanted it. [Intercom rings.] But there was just gobs of those old toilets left, so this family bought one, and they put it out there. And over the years, the underbrush had just grown up around it. I guess that’s the reason it stayed in such good condition. It was practically covered with briars and everything. Oh, I was just beside myself. And I grabbed my camera and made a picture of it. And I asked them what they were going to do with it.

Well, now, they’re very practical people. They don’t waste nothing. But to me they wasted a treasure. [Voice from intercom.] They said, “Well, we’ve got to have a house over our well.” They had just drilled a well. So they sawed that toilet in two—

SCHLEIDT: [Sharp intake of breath.] Ohhh!

SMALLING: —so somebody could just put the top down over their well. It had a [tin? 2-52:18] roof. It worked perfect. But there, they had ruined the toilet. [Laughs.] I said it broke my heart. But my husband talked to the son, and he finally gave him a piece of the lumber that was left on the bottom half that they weren’t using, so I took the photograph, and I made me a map of Arkansas, at least an outline on a canvas, and I traced my toilet off on there and oil painted it. And then he cut that green board and made a [crank? 2-52:53]. And I titled, “Forester’s Finest” [laughs] all of us didn’t have that green one, you know? [Laughs.] And took it to [their union? unintelligible; 2-53:04]. And it’s hanging on my bathroom wall. [Laughs heartily.] I don’t think about that or I’d have brought that and let you see my toilet. [Laughs.]

SCHLEIDT: Oh, my gosh!

SMALLING: See, I’m really a fanatic about Forester stuff.

SCHLEIDT: You should be.

SMALLING: And they moved an old house up there one time to that park, and they planned to renovate it and make it look like it did. It still looked, on the outside, more or less like it did, but whoever lived in it had painted the walls and done some things, and it was pretty well abused. But it sat there and sat there, and they didn’t do nothing, and finally it began to fall down. You know, the outside, where the lumber came together, there would be a crack, and they always put a thin strip over that crack, and those thin strips began to sort of curl up, and it fell off. And [unintelligible; 2-53:58] and I were up there one day just driving around. We drove down through the park, and I said, “Oh!” I said, “Look. Those lumber pieces have fallen off.” I said, “Let’s get some of those.” Well, he said, “What in the world do you want with that?” I said, “Well, I want picture frames.”

And we picked up two or three and put them in the back of the truck. Well, sooner or later, that old house fell down and they piled it up and burned it. But he made me some of the most gorgeous frames you ever saw in your life, and I have one that he made, a double frame, and I didn’t want it painted. I wanted it to be natural. But it was a little bit rough, and I sanded it a little bit, and when I sanded it, there was a little bit of green paint, and then when I went a little further, there was a little red paint. So that made me know it was an old Angel Town house, where we used to live, because the first houses in Angel Town, these first ones right here, when we moved in were red. And these were unpainted. Then later the company came out and painted them all green.

SCHLEIDT: Oh, okay.

SMALLING: So when I sanded down through the green and found the red—

SCHLEIDT: You knew it came from Angel Town.

SMALLING: I knew it was one of those Angel Town Houses.


SMALLING: Oh, there’s all kinds of stuff like that. You can’t believe what a collector I’ve been. I have something else I wanted to show you. I [don’t know if? 2-55:22] you saw this the day that we were here or not. Did you see this piece of [unintelligible; 255:28]?

SCHLEIDT: Oh, wow.

SMALLING: Caddo River had that—

SCHLEIDT: “Good for one dollar in trade.”

SMALLING: Yeah, they were paid partly in that, but you couldn’t spend it anywhere except their company store. And you know what? I thought about it. Some people thought that was tacky. But you know what? There was lots of men that got their pay and then they’d play poker and they’d lose it. They couldn’t lose it. If his wife had this dollar, she had a dollar.


SMALLING: [Laughs.]

SCHLEIDT: Yes, she did.

SMALLING: And after my mom died, I found this in some of her stuff. She had kept all these years.

SCHLEIDT: Wow, that’s nice. Who knows what you might find out there if you start looking?

SMALLING: This was a Forester report card. This is a Forester letter with an actual postmark on it.

SCHLEIDT: Oh, 1948, right before they shut down.

SMALLING: “Eighth grade, 1947 to ’48, Forester.” Well, I remember these kind of report cards.

SMALLING: [Laughs.] And there’s something really funny on that to me. See, we had a teacher, and then we had the principal, and the principal taught classes, too, and if you look where there’s little check marks?


SMALLING: You see those little check marks?


SMALLING: Well, see, the teacher had one color, and the principal had another color, and they checked these marks. On mine, they checked that I tried to be—let’s see, “Reasonably clean.” [Laughs.] Both of them checked me on that!

SCHLEIDT: Oh, boy.

SMALLING: Wasn’t that great?


SMALLING: [Laughs.]

SCHLEIDT: Oh, boy! So your mother had to sign it.


SCHLEIDT: Oh, boy. That is so nice!

SMALLING: That thing’s been around a while, ain’t it?

SCHLEIDT: It has! And it’s in very good shape.

SMALLING: And, now, this is the first reunion we had up there at the park. Oh, that was really a big day, too. We had dignitaries there that day.

SCHLEIDT: Oh, really?

SMALLING: We had governor—well, let’s see, [William J.] Bill Clinton wasn’t the governor then. What was he? But Bill Clinton has been there, and David Pryor has been there, and—somebody else. I can’t remember who it was. But we soon quit having those. People didn’t want politicians and stuff. They just wanted to visit with each other.

SCHLEIDT: Right. I understand that. “Governor Bill Clinton.” “Forester Principal, Mr. Morgan Griffith.” There was a song, “Forester”?

SMALLING: Well, actually, there’s two now. Now, Christine [Rankin?] did that first one. She even recorded it so the people could keep it, but then Jo Parker wrote one when she did this cookbook, I think. You know, people are really sentimental about their lives there.

SCHLEIDT: I can see. I can see.

SMALLING: They really are.

SCHLEIDT: I guess the next job will be to sit down and talk to the Historical Society and see what they want to do.

SMALLING: Well, I don’t know. I mean, you can contact [unintelligible; 2-58:37]—

SCHLEIDT: Or Miss Galloway.

SMALLING: Amie. She could always tell you who is important, because I didn’t attend their meeting, and I just don’t know.

SCHLEIDT: Okay. Well, that sounds good. I’ll see what exactly they want and how much funding they have, and—

SMALLING: Well, you know, and everybody’s got their different ideas, and everybody needs a chance to say what they think. Now, I think Amie and I pretty well agree. And one thing we really agree on: Please get it done while we’re still alive.


SMALLING: [Laughs.]


SMALLING: Any time we get together as a whole, we hope they get it done so we live to see it, you know?

SCHLEIDT: I have to see about the bronze marker for the highway. That might be that $12,000.

SMALLING: Where would that be, do you think?

SCHLEIDT: That’s something the state puts out.

SMALLING: I’ve seen a lot of those but don’t really remember exactly how they—were they were, you know. And this is a pretty big place.

SCHLEIDT: Mm-hm. That would probably be on the side of the highway, as you turn in right there, and you could probably put a sign right there on the highway.

SMALLING: Well, that would catch the travelers’ eyes, wouldn’t it?

SCHLEIDT: Mm-hm. Then I guess we could talk about maybe putting some sort of can branch out towards [cross-talk; unintelligible; 2-1:00:09].

SMALLING: Have you been down there lately.

SCHLEIDT: I’ve been a couple of times this year.

SMALLING: Did Amie tell you about the Memory Walk?


SMALLING: Okay. Where you go in under the pavilion, you know, they always have tables out there, and then you go in under there. Right by the pavilion is little Candy Bliss, who lived down there, and she takes care of the park and decorates it every year. She decided to make a memory garden, just make it look nice. So, you know, she dug up some dirt, she planted flowers and put some rocks and moss and stuff there and started making a little garden. Well, that just kind of led to something else. They wanted something else in memory.

So somebody came up with the idea of a brick walk, and everybody would buy a brick and put his name on it. I think—it seemed like this time I counted maybe eighty-five bricks already in it, and then they would have started to taking up a list for next time. And this old man at parks lays the bricks when they get them, and they buy them from this company, and, you know, your name is etched down in there, and then they put fill in with a little dark color to make it show up, so you can buy, like, you and your husband one or your mother and daddy one. And they’ve already got a pretty good little Memory Walk there. And then there’s a couple girls who have built a memorial to their brother, who passed away a few years ago. So there’s already some—you know. What would you call it? Permanent—

SCHLEIDT: Just names.

SMALLING: —names down at the park.

SCHLEIDT: Hmm! Okay. Well, let’s see what I can conjure up next.

SMALLING: I hope you can conjure up a bunch of good stuff.

SCHLEIDT: Okay. All right.

SMALLING: I’ve got one other thing I want to show you. You’re an archaeologist, right?

SCHLEIDT: Yes, ma’am.

SMALLING: [Presents a document.] I thought you might be interested in this. It has nothing to do with Forester. [Laughs.] When we lived in New Mexico, we always went out into the forest or out on the flats, and on Sunday we cut wood for firewood all winter. We’d have a picnic. And at that time—you know, there’s lots of Indian mounds and things in that state, and they had mounds, but you weren’t allowed to dig in those.


SMALLING: But on a flat or on those little, you know, arroyos it was not against the law to dig. You know, they just marked those mounds off. So we would dig, just to have something to do. And guess what we accidentally did one day.

SCHLEIDT: What did you do?

SMALLING: [No audible reply.]

SCHLEIDT: [unintelligible; 2-1:02:53]. Oh, my gosh! [You can see the little?] [unintelligible 2-1:02:56]

SMALLING: I have carried this thing around for years and years.


SMALLING: And here’s a letter. I think this picture—I wanted to know more about it. Now, it’s [unintelligible; 2-1:03:09] to this place, and it tells you there what it’s—

SCHLEIDT: [unintelligible; 2-1:03:15].

SMALLING: And look at the date.

SCHLEIDT: Yeah, [unintelligible; 2-1:03:18]. Wow! Not bad!

SMALLING: I mean, it was sticking [out? unintelligible; 2-1:03:34]. We were just cutting wood, and we were through, and we decided to dig in this little wash. Came down with all kinds of little broken pottery, you know. So we said, “Well, this might be a good place to dig.” And we were just on a flat. There was no sign of anything there. Just digging to be digging. And, you know, [unintelligible; 2-1:03:51] it’s easy to dig.


SMALLING: And about I guess two and a half feet down, my husband was doing the shovel work at that time, and he began to find pieces of wood about that long [demonstrates] that were burned on the end, and they were put together like a campfire. And he began to pull those sticks out, you know, and he said, “We’ve found something here.” And in a minute that little thing rolled out, and that little bone was there with it. And I don’t remember what year that was, but it’s been a long time.

MAN: Would you all care for a Coke?

SMALLING: I don’t think I would.

SCHLEIDT: [unintelligible; 2-1:04:30].

SMALLING: I’ll bet Maria is probably famished.

MAN: What have you got there?

SCHLEIDT: She’s got a little [cross-talk; unintelligible; 2-1:04:34].

SMALLING: You can look, but you can’t touch. [Laughs.]

MAN: I can’t touch it?

SMALLING: Well, you’re going to have to do it [with] a gentle hand. You drop it, we’re both dead because I’ll kill you and then I’ll die of a heart attack. [Laughs.]

MAN: Well!

SMALLING: And that’s your [meal? 2-1:04:55] for lacing up your moccasins.

MAN: Yeah. [unintelligible; 2-1:04:57].


MAN: [unintelligible; 2-1:05:00].


MAN: Sure does. Where did you find that at?

SMALLING: Well, my husband—

MAN: [unintelligible; 2-1:05:05].

SMALLING: No, no, no. This is a New Mexico—

[End of interview.]